Velociworld

We should call in the Borg, and Scarface.

When my grandparents came to the U.S., there were no Italian broadcasters, no abundance of italian language newspapers, etc. There was no Internet. It's far too easy today to physically live in one country and mentally and spiritually live on the other side of the globe. I'm not sure how you can really counteract that fact.

Bravo!

As conservative as I am, I've often thought that when people are willing to hike over miles of blistering desert or cross oceans in crowded, leaky boats just to serve me a slurpee at my local 7-11 or cut my grass, then maybe we should want them here. Not much difference between them and the Pilgrims, or my ancestor from Alsace who came here in the 1840's because he was tired of the French.

Regards.

Yes, but only in the conservative non-misanthropic state, always mindful of Milton Friedman: It's just perfectly obvious that you cannot have both open immigration and a welfare state.

I've always been curious about the nativist streak in the Republicans who try scoring points by baiting Mexicans. Firstly, it didn't seem to work out all that well in New Mexico, Colorado and Florida in last fall's elections, now did it?

Second, no one seems to have thought out the consequences of it very thoroughly. Let's say that Mitt Romney has super powers in his hairspray that I'm not aware of and could deport all 13 million of them.

I presume that you folks enjoy things like strawberries and clean hotel rooms. All having Americans do those jobs accomplishes is to make those goods and services twice as expensive. Show me someone in Rhode Island that will work for a dollar an hour.

Given the love Americans have for cheap shit, I can't imagine that anyone would be thrilled with a life without illegals.

Not only is all this talk about "tough enforcement" evil and wrong, it's inflationary as fuck. That doesn't seem to be addressed by anyone who isn't me, but that's to be expected since I'm such a cutey-pie.

All of the self-congratulation over building 600 miles of fence on a 2,000 mile border pretty much tells you everything you need to know about most Republicans.

Don't get me started on what your drug war is doing to countries like Mexico and Colombia ....

Sigh. I'm trying to take the day off from politics but I like your non-violent solutions to illegals pretty well. Anyway, I'm just making the rounds at long last. Hope you've been well.

I finally have something cheery posted on my blog. A fun meme for photoshoppers.

I like it, on the face of it, but I don't think it will eliminate the influx of line jumpers for this reason: minimum wage. Those cheap strawberries and hotel rooms skippy mentions exist because some people are able to skirt the government imposed minimum wage requirements that artificially increase the cost of running a business. Americans would actually fill those jobs if they paid less, but legally. People entering the work force, people looking for supplemental income ... there's plenty of them, and the current economic crisis may create a new group of Americans willing to be paid lower-than-minimum wage under the table, just for the assurance of having a job.

Idle thought ... spend part of the "stimulus" to encourage business growth in Mexico ... reverse the flow of immigration ... lobby the Mexican government to pass business-friendly legislation ... a buck goes further south of the border!

Velociman:
"once there is a humane, quick entry system in place, we can conscionably institute quotas, and only allow in the numbers we can reasonably accommodate. In today's economic climate that number should probably be zero."
If we set a number that we can reasonably accommodate, and that number is zero, that sounds like we tell them No, stay home, but the forces that motivate them to come remain in place, with the result that they come anyway. In other words, what is the difference between the situation using your approach and the present situation?

Your earlier points were valid and well said, but I'd say James Wilson's point trumps them.

Peggy,

Therein lies the rub and that's why most politicians are full of shit. They like to have it both ways, screaming about the supply and doing nothing about the demand. Republicans in particular seem to know nothing about economics.

Like the drug war, the battle against illegal immigration is a prestine example of "supply-side law enforcement." So long as there's a demand for cheap labor, there's always going to a supply. Period. Unless and until the, say, regional district manager for, say, Burger King looks at some serious time in the federal pokey, there's always going be someone with a curious accent asking if you want fries with that.

Blaming impoverished Mexicans for that might make everybody feel better, but it doesn't make anyone any less stupid. Illegal immigrants have produced a lot of things that Americans cherish throughout your history. Those things include, but aren't limited to, Boston, New York City and Elvis Presley

There are few things as adorable as listening to someone rant about the decline of the American middle-class and globalization as they slip on a pair of comfy Nikes that were proudly made by a six year old in Jakarta. As I remember it, even Pat Buchanan had a preference for German cars, didn't he?

Eliminating the minimum wage is fine in theory, but even more, it's a fantastic way to get eaten alive politically. So let's not even pretend that's on the table. Besides, that "lower-than-minimum wage, under the table" job isn't going to pay off anyone's adjustible rate mortage, now is it?

As much as people like scapgoating the illegals, it's important to realize that their kids are not infrequently American citizens. That's why I'm always astonished by the efforts of reactionary retards to cut of their educational and medical benefits. What could go wrong in marginalizing children?

Ending illegal immigration is going to require a number of things that most Americans aren't grown up enough to long tolerate.

First, you're going to have to understand that paying less for a good or service than it's actually worth in the U.S marketplace is always going to drive illegal immigration. Each and every time.

Second, letting American corporations use the Third World as a new-fangled plantation is going to drive the workers there to seek their own little part of the American Dream at your expense. Life is expensive. Deal with it. If you were willing to pay the extra forty bucks for running shoes, they might actually still be made by Americans.

Third, if the drug war wasn't turning a lot of the countries illegals emigrate from into horror stories, they might not have something to flee. That's happening because morons are unable to reconcile themselves to the the fact that Americans really, really like cocaine and deal with it like rational adults.

On the other hand, that would fuck with your prison-industrial complex, but those assholes could get jobs making sneakers.

Those might all sound like lefty-cocksucker talking points, but they all happen to be market-based facts. What's happening is a result of American consumer decisions and the political/law enforcement idea that nothing is the fault of what Americans actually want.

And that's the end of my foreign condesention for today.

What happens if I decide to slip across the border to Canada and go to work there without the bother of going through custom, a little stroll across the border.

James,

You'd probably get federal funding and a Canada Council grant.

Actually, what's happening is that as the fear-mongering gets ratcheted up in the U.S, your illegals aren't going home, they're coming here. This, of course, is doing charming things to the social infrastructure of cities like Windsor.

But we love dealing with your problems. That's why we're here.

Lookit. When we lived in Mexico, we weren't allowed to work. We were resident aliens, but no green card for us. They would've thrown us in jail in a heartbeat and left us to rot if they could. Every minor infraction is a chance to hold a U.S. citizen for ransom. It's a fatalistic thugocracy and their denizens do not come here yearning for freedom so much as a free ride.

James' point is exactly correct, but I agree with the relative sanity of making immigration immediate and easy and get these folks adding to the tax rolls.

As it is, the Dems see the Mexicans as their South American niggers, and wish only to keep them in penury and subjugation to the Democratic handout.

Obama Ascendant! is the new Black American Democratic party and the Messicans have no part in it. Obama's crowd will see to it. Don't think so? How many Mexicans are in Chicago? How much has Obama even thrown a nod their way?

Joan,

Of course it's political. And the Democrats are playing the politics better than the Republicans are. The motives are meaningless, as is usually the case in politics.

Bush barely won twice. I happen to think that his cracking 40% of the Hispanic vote had a lot to do with saving us from a Kerry presidency, which would have been a different kind of horrible.

But then the GOP went all bugeyed and stupid over immigration reform and got their asses kicked all over the Southwest, Florida and North Carolina for their trouble. Shit, Georgia was closer than it had any business being. Those states probably aren't coming back anytime soon.

Elections are about addition and the Republican party seemed to think that it could win through subtraction. The results were predictable. Turns out that folks of Hispanic extraction don't cotton to having assholes like Mitt Romney wistlfully opine about forcibly deporting 13 million of their fellows. Who knew?

Your point about Mexicans being the new blacks is a good one, but one that's scary when you think about it. When the Democrats went all civil rightsy in '64, they held black voters, but lost white Southerners. Last year, they won the Hispanic vote and carried whites, including in states they shouldn't have. That might not be a trend, but if I gave a shit, I'd be scared to death that it might be.

Yeah, the Democrats are vicious motherfuckers who want to subjugate everybody. So what? They've finally figured out how to win a presidential election. If Obama's even halfway smart, he'll reintroduce Bush's immigration plan in the spring of 2012 and watch the GOP trip over their own dicks for seven months.

Joan is right. For all the focus on white racist behavior, the dirty fact is that, on the whole, other ethnic groups are easily more intolerant of each other than we are of them.

BTW, I know there is some language variation, but is condescension really spelled "condesention" in Canada?

Peggy,

No. I'm just a very high functioning retard.

Well, you know, if all the Mexicans want is a handout better than the Marxist one they had, I think they'll be satified.

However, most Mexicans I knew were very hard-working and clever people with a dream of something more. Those are in Mexico City, still trying to make it work. The ones that stream north are not the brightest and best with any idea of how the First World works. All they know is, "free stuff" is better than no stuff. Thus, they will swarm to the Democrats.

Besides, that "lower-than-minimum wage, under the table" job isn't going to pay off anyone's adjustible rate mortage, now is it?

No, it isn't, and I never said it would. You make the simplistic assumption that all workers require "liveable" wages. Why is it that people assume that the only folks who hold nonskilled jobs have families to feed and that it would be merciless to pay less than a government mandated minimum wage? There are plenty of retired people, young people just entering the work force, and people looking for temporary supplemental income who do these kinds of jobs. Jobs of this sort also allow the developmentally disabled some measure of productivity and pride. It isn't all about working families! And, if there is truly a labor shortage, employers will offer greater compensation to attract help ... or a worker visa program, such as Velociman suggests, could fill the need.

Adjustable rate mortgages ... only make sense in limited circumstances, and certainly can be dangerous to the ignorant. So maybe ask Barney Frank why it's a good idea to make them available to such vulnerable people.

.... my least-ancient ancestor on The Continent was on a jury in York Co, SC back in 1755......... all of my other ancestors were here well before then...... but, still, we're all illegals in one way or the other, aren't we?......

....hell, I'm 1/8th indian..... and THEY all got deported a long, long way away back in the 1840s........ so, who knows?......

.... and Skippy, you know you are The Man..... but quit beating down on the denizens....... all visitors are welcome in the South....... and in the South, we're all about being "nice"........ so chill the fuck out.....

..... peace upon you, brother Skippy....... it'll soothe you greatly..... all is well.....

... the World is Fucked Up, we ALL are Fucked Up..... and we'll all deal with it shortly......

Dude, I swear to fucking GOD, if you don't put down the bong, I'm going to smack you!

You've used up our ellipses allotment for the next five fiscal years, and you did it with a single comment!

Not cool, dude. Not. Cool.